HAZLEBADGE - General Robin Hood Discussions - All - The Blue Boar Inn -- Robin Hood Discussions - Message Board - Yuku

RSS
Email

0 Kudo

HAZLEBADGE

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Author	Comment
Graham P Kirkby	HAZLEBADGE	Lead	[-]
Posts: 590 (05/05/08 06:22:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : hazlebadge The 'Robin Crosse' first recorded in 1319 in Hazlebadge is the earliest place to bear the outlaws name (Holt). Hazlebadge belonged to William Peveril who was a Sheriff of Nottingham. It then came into the possession of the Strelley family through the marriage of Sir Robert Strelley with Elizabeth, the heiress of the Vavasours whose father held the custody of the Honor of Peverell. The Strelley family were among the knights and gentlemen of England. They were courtiers of King John and provided him with hunting horses whenever the king came to the Royal Forest of the Peak carrying a heron falcon. The Strelleys also fought on the side of De-Montford which is where the Scotch Chroniclers record Robin Hood as being present. The Strelleys owned the nearby Brough Mill and the bridge over the river in the Royal Forest of the Peak and they also held estates at Beuchief (Sheffield) and in Nottingham. The father-in-law of Robert Strelley Sir Robert-le-Vavasour was High Sheriff of County Nottingham in 1236 and High Sheriff of Derbyshire until his death. He married Juliana, daughter of Gilbert de Ros of Steeton, Yorkshire. He had custody of Peverell Castle and in 9 John (1208) he paid a fine of 1,200 marks and two palfreys that his daughter, the widow of Theobald Walter, might be married to Fulke Fitz Warine, an eminent Baron of his time who held huge estates in Sussex, Yorkshire, and elsewhere. (Waryn was pardoned of outlawry in 1203AD but according to Ohlgren he won the hand in marriage of Miletta Peverel in a joust at Peveril Castle, this is before he was outlawed. Another source says he married Hawise or Avice, daughter of Sir Joyce Dinan.) Can someone help sort out Fulk Fitz Warine's married life? However with these connections to De-Montford, two Sheriffs of Nottingham, King John, the Strellys who were also in Sherwood, Fulke Fitz Warine and bearing in mind its proximity to Hathersage and Loxley and the nearby Robin Hood Cross you can't help wondering if these people knew Robin Hood? "Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance." W. Clement Stone Last Edited By: Graham P Kirkby 05/11/08 10:20:06. Edited 6 times.
1981Marcus		#1	[-]
Posts: 272 (05/05/08 15:51:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The problem with the FitzWaryns is that every eldest son of the family for five generations was called Fouke. The outlaw was Fouke III, but the romance confuses the issue, essentially conflating the first two Foukes and possibly also attributing elements of their careers to its hero - hence the confusion over these wives. Miletta Peveril was the wife of Waryn de Metz, founder of the line. They were the parents of Fouke I. Hawise de Dinan was the wife of Fouke II. They were the parents of the outlaw hero Fouke III. Fouke III married twice: his first wife was Matilda Vavasour, widow of Theobald Walter; his second was Clarice d' Auberville. And it wasn't Matilda's father who became Sheriff of Nottinghamshire - he'd died in 1234 - but a different Robert Vavasour (a cousin of some kind, but the exact relationship is unknown). Oh, and Bower doesn't explicitly say that Robin Hood fought beside de Montfort - he says that Robin Hood took over the leadership of the dispossessed in 1266. That does make it likely that, if Bower's report is accurate, Robin was a Montfortian before the Earl's death, but likely isn't certain.
Robhen		#2	[-]
Posts: 130 (05/06/08 08:51:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Of course they all knew Robin Hood; they were neighbours.'Thoroton's Nottinghamshire,' Broxtow Hundred, page 223. Simon, son of Simon, son of William (de Kyme) gave a mark of silver yearly of his mill in Bilobro, called Bobursmilne, in Lenton for the soul of Walter de Kyme his brother. Petronilla, who was the wife of Stephen de Faukonberg, came and quit claimed to Walter de Rybebof, and Isabella his wife, all the lands which was Simon's son of Simon (de Kyme) in Notts and Derbys for herself and heirs forever. Petronilla was the daughter of Simon de Kyme. Philip de Kyme was found 21 Ed 1, to have had a knight's fee in Bilboro. Robert de Strelley held in Bilboro, in the right of Elizabeth his wife, half a Knight's Fee of Walter Ryebof of the eschaet of Peverell. Richard Ryebof is also mentioned to pay for half a Knight's Fee here. But Robert de Vavasour was the constant owner in the time of Henry the third, in whose reign he was many years High Sheriff of these counties of Nott and Derb, viz 20,22,23,and the 30, til the 39.
Graham P Kirkby		#3	[-]
Posts: 592 (07/27/35 11:10:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	1981Marcus wrote: The problem with the FitzWaryns is that every eldest son of the family for five generations was called Fouke. The outlaw was Fouke III, but the romance confuses the issue, essentially conflating the first two Foukes and possibly also attributing elements of their careers to its hero - hence the confusion over these wives. Miletta Peveril was the wife of Waryn de Metz, founder of the line. They were the parents of Fouke I. Hawise de Dinan was the wife of Fouke II. They were the parents of the outlaw hero Fouke III. Fouke III married twice: his first wife was Matilda Vavasour, widow of Theobald Walter; his second was Clarice d' Auberville. And it wasn't Matilda's father who became Sheriff of Nottinghamshire - he'd died in 1234 - but a different Robert Vavasour (a cousin of some kind, but the exact relationship is unknown). Oh, and Bower doesn't explicitly say that Robin Hood fought beside de Montfort - he says that Robin Hood took over the leadership of the dispossessed in 1266. That does make it likely that, if Bower's report is accurate, Robin was a Montfortian before the Earl's death, but likely isn't certain. . Thanks for your reply Marcus, I would have got back to you sooner but have been busy. Are you sure Matilda Vavasour who married Fulke Fitz Warine III. wasn't the daughter of Sir Robert le Vavasour the High Sheriff? This is what I have: "Sir Robert le Vavasour was High Sheriff of County Nottingham, 21 Henry III (1236) and High Sheriff of Derby from 31 Henry III until his death. He married Juliana, daughter of Gilbert de Ros of Steeton, Yorkshire. He had custody of the tower of Peverell. In 9 John (1208) he paid a fine of 1,200 marks and two palfreys that his daughter, the widow of Theobald Walter, might be married to Fulke Fitz Warine, an eminent Baron of his time who held huge estates in Sussex, Yorkshire, and elsewhere." http://oldtykes.co.uk/medieval.htm Thanks, Graham. "Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance." W. Clement Stone Last Edited By: Graham P Kirkby 05/10/08 01:39:39. Edited 2 times.
Graham P Kirkby		#4	[-]
Posts: 593 (05/10/08 02:26:56) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Robhen wrote: Of course they all knew Robin Hood; they were neighbours.'Thoroton's Nottinghamshire,' Broxtow Hundred, page 223. Simon, son of Simon, son of William (de Kyme) gave a mark of silver yearly of his mill in Bilobro, called Bobursmilne, in Lenton for the soul of Walter de Kyme his brother. Petronilla, who was the wife of Stephen de Faukonberg, came and quit claimed to Walter de Rybebof, and Isabella his wife, all the lands which was Simon's son of Simon (de Kyme) in Notts and Derbys for herself and heirs forever. Petronilla was the daughter of Simon de Kyme. Philip de Kyme was found 21 Ed 1, to have had a knight's fee in Bilboro. Robert de Strelley held in Bilboro, in the right of Elizabeth his wife, half a Knight's Fee of Walter Ryebof of the eschaet of Peverell. Richard Ryebof is also mentioned to pay for half a Knight's Fee here. But Robert de Vavasour was the constant owner in the time of Henry the third, in whose reign he was many years High Sheriff of these counties of Nott and Derb, viz 20,22,23,and the 30, til the 39. . Thank you for your contribution Robert. Hazlebadge is close to the Yorkshire boundary near the sheriff of Nottingham's castle close to Hathersage and Loxley. This moves the location away from Nottingham towards Yorkshire and although the Vavasour family were keepers of Nottingham Castle and Sheriffs of Nottingham they were a Yorkshire family. "Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance." W. Clement Stone Last Edited By: Graham P Kirkby 05/10/08 03:43:05. Edited 2 times.
1981Marcus		#5	[-]
Posts: 274 (05/10/08 12:06:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Googling them revealed that every bloody genealogical site gives different details and dates - I swear half of them just make stuff up. A few do give citations, for instance to Cokayne's Complete Peerage, which apparently has Matilda's father dead by 1227. I think my original source was the VCH. In any case, the Sheriff was certainly Robert Vavasour of Shipley, and Matilda's father Robert Vavasour of Hazlewood. (The Sheriff appears to have hailed from Shipley in Derbyshire, not the better known Yorkshire Shipley. Hazlewood, of course, is in Yorkshire; the family had been there since the eleventh century, whereas the Sheriff is IIRC the first "Vavasour of Shipley" attested.) Apart from anything else, it's surely unlikely that a guy whose daughter was on her second husband in 1206 would still be holding public office in 1255? I'll check the VCH again next week.
Graham P Kirkby		#6	[-]
Posts: 599 (05/10/08 12:16:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks Marcus, it isn't particularly important so don't put yourself out. I had them as coming from Theves-dale near Tadcaster. " Sir John le Vavasour, lord of Hazelwood, gave to the Abbot and Convent of Thornton and the Prebendaries and Chapter of St. Peter's Church, Howden, stone from his quarries at Theves-dale near Tadcaster to build their churches and repair other edifices. His sister Maud married Theobald Walter, brother of Hubert, Archbishop of Canterbury. He married Alice, daughter and heir of Sir Robert Cockfield, Knight." "Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance." W. Clement Stone Last Edited By: Graham P Kirkby 05/11/08 02:02:59. Edited 4 times.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Quick Reply