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 Dave Evans |
Anybody seen this? |
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Posts: 40 (03/14/09 02:12:37) |
Apparently 'new' and 'unique' evidence discovered dating RH to Edward I (via a 1460's ms), I'll wait for the full story with
attributions before making my mind up but my immediate reaction is 'yes, and your point is what precisely?'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/7941504.stm |
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Graham P Kirkby |
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Posts: 814 (03/14/09 04:12:28) |
Dave Evans wrote: Nice find David. This confirms Robin as a real person as several other chroniclers have done. It also confirms his Scottish connections and for a long time I have seen Robin Hood as an unpleasant character who has been made into a hero by the romantic writers and later Hollywood, so thee findings confirm what I have been thinking for quite a while. Keep your eyes skinned for the full story please David and I will do the same. We know the Scots raided down as far as Derby so Robin Hood being in Sherwood is no surprise and of course Barnsdale is not far from the Scottish Borders, so like you my immediate reaction is "yes." 
"Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance."
W. Clement Stone |
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robyn hode |
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Posts: 171 (03/14/09 04:21:09) |
excellent find! cant wait to find out more.
" A man who thinks himself wise believes nothing till it is proved, but a man who is wise believes
everything till it is disproved."
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WoodsyLadyM |
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Posts: 193 (03/14/09 05:55:22) |
The article referenced in the news story is already available online for free from the Journal of Medieval History:
http://tinyurl.com/bxhvlq The article is also available in pdf. Download now because I believe once they publish another issue of this journal you'll have to pay. Enjoy! |
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Robhen |
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Posts: 291 (03/14/09 10:22:43) |
Keep your eyes skinned for the full story please David and I will do the same. We know the Scots raided down as far as Derby so Robin
Hood being in Sherwood is no surprise and of course Barnsdale is not far from the Scottish Borders, so like you my immediate reaction is "yes."
No mention of Barnsdale; and by my rough calculation, Barnsdale, Yorkshire to the Scottish border must be 150 miles. Remember the bit in Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves, where one minute Costner and Morgan Freedman are on the south coast, next minute they are in Nottingham. Oh we did laugh. As regards the article, I have never had any problems with a Robin Hood of the 13th century: I've always championed that century. If I remember my history, did not Bonny Prince Charlie get as far as Derby, then for some reason, turn round and go back home. Read Maria's article Graham, then see what you think. |
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Graham P Kirkby |
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Posts: 815 (03/14/09 10:49:13) |
Robhen wrote: Nottingham is further away from Scotland than Barnsdale which was in Northumbria close to the Scottish borders so I don't know what you are saying there. Films and books often change the setting from scene to scene and chapter to chapter as we have discussed before so no problem there.
"Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance."
W. Clement Stone
Last Edited By: Graham P Kirkby
03/14/09 12:43:34.
Edited 10 times.
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Graham P Kirkby |
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Posts: 816 (03/14/09 11:33:34) |
We have just been discussing how there were many Robin Hoods. Adam Bell, Clim of the Clough, and William of Cloudesley are three examples of outlaws who go
back almost as far as Robin Hood himself and here is another "Robin Hood" figure.
Adam Bell was a legendary English outlaw. He and his companions William of Cloudsley and Clym of the Clough lived in Inglewood Forest near Carlisle and were figures similar to Robin Hood. In the prologue to Howard Pyle's 1883 novel The Merry Adventures of Robin Hood, Little John upon first meeting Robin compared his skill at archery to that of Adam Bell. [This rules out Robin Hood and Adam Bell being one and the same] A 1432 Parliament Roll for Wiltshire adds to a list of local members, presumably in a spirit of satire, a sequence of outlaw names -- Robin Hood, Little John, Much, Scathelock and Reynold are there, but, remarkably in so southern an area, the list is led by "Adam Belle, Clim O'Cluw, Willyam Cloudesle." They are described in the Child Ballad Adam Bell, Clym of the Cloughe and Wyllyam of Cloudeslee. At one point William of Cloudsley shoots an arrow through an apple on his son's head, a feat also ascribed to William Tell and other heroes. The oldest printed copy of this ballad dates from 1505 and was printed by Wynkyn de Worde. There are notable parallels between this ballad and that of Robin Hood and the Monk, but whether either legend was the source for the other cannot be established.[2] Adam Bell is presumably the "Adam" mentioned by Shakespeare in Much Ado About Nothing, I,i,257-9: ...hang me in a bottle like a cat, and shoot at me, and he that hits me, let him be clapp'd on the shoulder, and call'd Adam.[3] (From Wikipedia and Stephen Knight) These are the later Robin Hood figures along with Robert Hood of Wakefield and Robin Hood at Evesham. Here we have a Robin Hood figure in the reign of Edward I. but these men are later than the man of legend who I believe was active in the reign of Richard I at the time when the Earl of Mortain was ruling England before he became King John.
"Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance."
W. Clement Stone
Last Edited By: Graham P Kirkby
03/14/09 13:04:19.
Edited 6 times.
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Dave Evans |
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Posts: 41 (03/14/09 13:39:35) |
Maria
Thanks for the link, I did have a quick look to see if it was already available but obviously missed it, I salute your superior Googling. It's an interesting read but as I don't count myself as a 'reductive biographical empiricist' I can't say that it has swayed my opinion any further towards their camp. It simply seems to confirm that fifteenth century chroniclers regarded RH as a thirteenth century figure. Now if they'd found the results for the Sheriff of Nottingham's First All England Open Archery Tournament and it was won by RH (later disqualified for outlawry and entering under an assumed name) I might be more persuaded.
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ad101867 |
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Posts: 20 (03/14/09 18:28:11) |
Graham P Kirkby wrote:
A translation of the short inscription, which contains only 23 words in Latin, reads: "Around this time, according to popular opinion, a certain outlaw named Robin Hood, with his accomplices, infested Sherwood and other law-abiding areas of England with continuous robberies." [Emphasis added] The italicized phrases lend themselves to differing interpretations. The phrase "around this time" means that the activity of this outlaw
believed to be RH did not coincide precisely with the reign of Edward. Godberd was apparently captured in 1272, the year in which Edward began
his reign; that would qualify as being "around this time."
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ad101867 |
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Posts: 21 (03/14/09 18:43:14) |
Thanks a ton!!
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WoodsyLadyM |
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Posts: 194 (03/15/09 12:22:39) |
Dave Evans wrote:I think it was more luck than anything else but thanks. |
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Allen W Wright |
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Posts: 253 (03/16/09 06:53:17) |
I've looked at the news articles, and will read the actual journal article today. My feeling is that the press is making a bigger deal out of this. It
doesn't prove there's a real Robin anymore than the other chronicles do. Robin was called a "murderer" in other chroniclers of the time, so a
somewhat negative view is hardly new, even if this one is less qualified than the others. And as scholar's article (from what I glanced) points out, there
are Sherwood references prior to this. It adds some nice shading to what we know, and is a great find, but the press went a bit nuts here. Then again,
everytime a Robin Hood film or TV show comes out, they point out he's not wearing tights - even though he hasn't in most non-comedy films/TV shows for
the past few decades.
It's been a while, but I'll update my site about this, the Russell Crowe film (no longer Nottingham) and also an article looking at Robin Hood themed episodes of Peabody's Improbable History, Time Tunnel, Voyagers! and Star Trek: TNG in the next couple days. Hope all is well. Looks like I have quite the backlog to read. Allen |
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WoodsyLadyM |
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Posts: 195 (03/16/09 07:16:58) |
Allen W Wright wrote:Probably a slow news day. The media always makes a big deal about everything. |
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Graham P Kirkby |
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Posts: 818 (03/16/09 07:24:49) |
I'm posting this for those who are not familiar with Richard Grafton, this is what he wrote :
But in an olde and auncient Pamphlet I finde this written of the sayd Robert Hood. This man (sayth he) discended of a nobel parentage: or rather beyng of a base stocke and linage, was for his manhoode and chivalry advaunced to the noble dignité of an Erle. Excellyng principally in Archery, or shootyng, his manly courage agreeyng therunto: But afterwardes he so prodigally exceeded in charges and expences, that he fell into great debt, by reason wherof, so many actions and sutes were commenced against him, wherunto he aunswered not, that by order of lawe he was outlawed, and then for a lewde shift, as his last refuge, gathered together a companye of Roysters and Cutters, and practised robberyes and spoylyng of the kynges subjects, and occupied and frequentede the Forestes or wilde Countries. The which beyng certefyed to the King, and he beyng greatly offended therewith, caused his proclamation to be made that whosoever would bryng him quicke or dead, the king would geve him a great summe of money, as by the recordes in the Exchequer is to be seene: But of this promise, no man enjoyed any benefite. For the sayd Robert Hood, beyng afterwardes troubled with sicknesse, came to a certein Nonry in Yorkshire called Bircklies, where desirying to be let blood, he was betrayed and bled to deth. After whose death the Prioresse of the same place caused him to be buried by the high way side, where he had used to rob and spoyle those that passed that way. And upon his grave the sayde Prioresse did lay a very fayre stone, wherin the names of Robert Hood, William of Goldesborough and others were graven. And the cause why she buryed him there was for that the common passengers and travailers knowyng and seeyng him there buryed, might more safely and without feare take their jorneys that way, which they durst not do in the life of the sayd outlawes. And at eyther end of the sayde Tombe was erected a crosse of stone, which is to be seene there at this present (1569, pp. 84-85). http://www.lib.rochester.edu/camelot/teams/large.htm |
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