Robin Hood and courtly love

RSS
Email

0 Kudo

Author	Comment
lady archer	Robin Hood and courtly love	Lead	[-]
Posts: 338 (05/07/08 14:14:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None We know that Maid Marian is an addition to the legend, due to Munday's plays, French literature (Robin et Marion) and her association with the May Day Games. However, since the legend of Robin hood increasingly became gentrified over time, as Robin Hood -- once described as a yeoman, was identified as a knight/aristocrat in later tales (also partially because of Munday, as well as Grafton's Chronicle at Large, and Martin Parker's "A True Tale of Robin Hood" ballad) -- I'm curious about whether we can say Robin's and Marian relationship can be deemed as "courtly love". Robin Hood doesn't endure torment for Maid Marian in the legend, or really worship her, but he does perform great deeds for her in some tales (such as winning the archery contest and giving Maid Marian the prize). So, would it be accurate to associate the mythological(?) relationship between Robin and Marian as courtly love?
lady archer		#1	[-]
Posts: 341 (05/10/08 16:25:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	What? Nobody can answer??? And I thought you all were scholars. tisk
1981Marcus		#2	[-]
Posts: 278 (05/11/08 05:57:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I would say not. Firstly, great deeds are really incidental to the notion of courtly love; second, the association of stories such as the archery contest with Marian is VERY late - in the case of that particular example, I can't think of a single instance before the nineteenth century. A case can certainly be made that ideas of courtly love influenced the Victorian legend thanks to the pseudo-medievalism of the Romantics and their successors, but I don't think it had much influence any earlier.
Robhen		#3	[-]
Posts: 137 (05/11/08 07:30:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	If we take courtly love in its literal sense, 'The conventional Medieval tradition of knightly love for a lady, and the etiquette used in its expression,' (Oxford Concise Dictionary), then, no Robin and Marian's original relationship cannot be considered to be so. But contrary to popular belief, Maid Marian is there right from the beginning. Robin's love for her is absolute, and he does worship her; but it is not courtly. The Geste,'Robin loved our Dear Lady.' Maid Marian is our Dear Lady. But the later traditions move Robin Hood to the Royal Courts and our Dear Lady becomes the Lady Marian. The relationship then can then be deemed to be courtly love.
Graham P Kirkby		#4	[-]
Posts: 601 (05/11/08 08:11:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	COURLTY LOVE. I am sorry to be the harbinger of bad news which is why I refraind from replying earlier. Basically courtly love is a sham designed to impress and win hearts with a view to getting your own selfish desire. It is for show, it is without substance and is no subsitute for true love. (GK) "Poets adopted the terminology of feudalism, declaring themselves the vassal of the lady and addressing her as midons (my lord), a sort of code name so that the poet did not have to reveal the lady's name, but which was flattering by addressing her as his lord. The troubadour's model of the ideal lady was the wife of his employer or lord, a lady of higher status, usually the rich and powerful female head of the castle. When her husband was away on Crusade or other business she dominated the household and cultural affairs; sometimes this was the case even when the husband was at home. The lady was rich and powerful and the poet gave voice to the aspirations of the courtier class, for only those who were noble could engage in courtly love. This new kind of love saw nobility not based on wealth and family history, but on character and actions; thus appealing to poorer knights who saw an avenue for advancement." From Wikipidia. "The courtly lover existed to serve his lady. His love was invariably adulterous, marriage at that time being usually the result of business interest or the seal of a power alliance. Ultimately the lover saw himself as serving the all-powerful god of love and worshipping his lady-saint. Faithlessness was the mortal sin." (How can you have true love for another man's wife? GK) From Encyclopaedia Britannica. "Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance." W. Clement Stone
Robhen		#5	[-]
Posts: 139 (05/11/08 08:22:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well I quite loved my mother. And she was another man's wife. Regards, Oedipus.
Graham P Kirkby		#6	[-]
Posts: 602 (05/11/08 08:40:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Robhen wrote: Well I quite loved my mother. And she was another man's wife. Regards, Oedipus. I feel sick. "Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance." W. Clement Stone
WoodsyLadyM		#7	[-]
Posts: 140 (05/11/08 08:53:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	But contrary to popular belief, Maid Marian is there right from the beginning. Robin's love for her is absolute, and he does worship her; but it is not courtly. The Geste,'Robin loved our Dear Lady.' Maid Marian is our Dear Lady. "Our Dear Lady" here refers to the Virgin Mary, not Maid Marian. Let me quote the Gest from Robin Hood and Other Outlaw Tales: A gode maner than had Robyn In londe where that he were, Every day or he would dyne Three messis wolde he here The one in the worship of the Fader, And another of the Holy Gost, The thirde of Our dere Lady, That he loved allther moste. Robin loved Oure dere Lady: For dout of dydly synne, Wolde he never do company harme That any woman was in. It's clear from the context that this is a religious reference. Every day before he dined he would listen to three masses, one for God the Father, one for the Holy Ghost and one for the Virgin Mary. Out of this trinity his greatest devotion is to the Virgin Mary and the reason why he would not hurt women.
Graham P Kirkby		#8	[-]
Posts: 604 (05/11/08 09:05:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That rules out a real Maid Marian though doesn't it? Mind you that is probably the way it was but I'm sure a lot of ladies will feel sad though? How do you feel about there being no Maid Marian yourself? "Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance." W. Clement Stone Last Edited By: Graham P Kirkby 05/11/08 09:08:25. Edited 1 times.
WoodsyLadyM		#9	[-]
Posts: 142 (05/11/08 10:04:40) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well, I don't know for a fact that there was a real Robin Hood either, so whether there was a real Marian or not really doesn't bother me in the least. ;-) I admit it's fun to speculate but I tend to concur with Stephen Knight that all we can really know is the legend and it's development.
Graham P Kirkby		#10	[-]
Posts: 605 (05/11/08 10:08:16) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Well, how about this? Lady Archer asked about courtly love and you gave a reply about Christian love, as did Robert Henshaw. Why can't Robin have been a good Christian and worshipped the Virgin Mary and had a wife as well? (Not that he has a wife in the early ballads mind you.) "Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance." W. Clement Stone Last Edited By: Graham P Kirkby 05/11/08 10:10:59. Edited 1 times.

<< Previous Topic Next Topic >>

Yuku free message boards

Robin Hood and courtly love

Robin Hood and courtly love

Quick Reply