Before the time of Robert II.
My contender for the candidate of 'Robin Hood', however incredulous it may seem, died in the same year that a certain Earl of Chester did. Why this
particular historical character should have antagonised the Church, especially English clergymen, is perhaps one of the key elements in understanding the
historical significance behind the legend. However, it must be borne in mind that the legend of 'Robin Hood' has suffered from centuries of
fabrication, and probable deliberate disinformation, which has consequently produced a character far-removed from actuality. The concept that 'Robin
Hood' was a yeoman, as depicted in the Geste etc, could be one of the main distortions of the legend. Just because
Professor Holt says this is probably the case, one should not accept this as being absolute. Other 'academic experts' have been notoriously wrong; for
instance, Hugh Trevor-Roper, Professor of Modern History at Oxford University and Master of Peterhouse Cambridge, jeopardised his professional reputation by
authenticating the infamous Hitler Diaries, which later proved to be nothing more than blatant forgeries.
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 nybor edoh |
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Posts: 38 (02/25/08 18:19:32) |
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1981Marcus |
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Posts: 205 (02/26/08 06:57:03) |
You've just confirmed what I've suspected for a while now, that you're talking about David I of Scots. I will take a lot of convincing that he
could have inspired the legend. What are you basing this on?
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Graham P Kirkby |
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Posts: 490 (02/26/08 12:11:49) |
The same here, from memory King Stephen, David King of Scots, and Ranulf earl of Chester all died the same year. The end of the anarchy, so like Marcus I am
interested to know what you base it on?
"Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance."
W. Clement Stone
Last Edited By: Graham P Kirkby
02/26/08 12:13:56.
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Graham P Kirkby |
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Posts: 491 (02/26/08 13:02:44) |
Unless he means Simon de Senlis?
"Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance."
W. Clement Stone |
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nybor edoh |
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Posts: 39 (02/29/08 18:16:53) |
I am basing it on historical fact and English ecclesiastical records of that period which record the excommunication of one "David Fitz Canmore". The
period of his excommunication ties in with the years of his disappearance from contemporary historical records after he married Maud of Huntingdon and held the
Honour of Huntingdon and the title Prince of Cumbrians. What I have yet to establish is the reason for David's excommunication by a certain English bishop
(whose identity I am not yet prepared to reveal), a sanction also imposed on the Earl of Chester. "These bishops and archbishops ye beat and bind".
Why?
The Earl of Chester instigated a running feud with David over the Honour of Carlisle, particularly the hunting forest of Inglewood,which Ranulf once held. Little wonder then that once David became King of Scotland he invaded Northwest England in revenge. I did post a thread called A New Gest of Robyn Hode, which was based on the above. I am not out to convince anybody that my interpretation of the legend is in any way authoritative', well at least no more than any one elses, but I am tackling it from a logical and historical perspective, part of which proposes that the episode has been deliberately 'covered-up', hence the subsequent fabrication and disinformation surrounding the episode. However, I will say that my MA thesis and research proposal has now been accepted and approved, so I presume my findings will be adding to that collective pool of knowledge called History, which is the task of a historian. If this was not the case it would have been rejected, therefore my studies do seem to have some credulity. |
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Graham P Kirkby |
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Posts: 492 (03/01/08 02:23:21) |
I have always been interested in that period and the people and places you mention but I gave up because I came to a dead end which is hardly surprising as all
I have is authors like Jim Bradley and Marjorie Chibnal. Is it possible for you to see the ecclesiastical records in France?
"Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance."
W. Clement Stone |
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nybor edoh |
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Posts: 40 (03/01/08 18:55:14) |
Why French ecclesiastical records? I am aware that at one time the Catholic Church's administrative headquarters etc moved from Rome to Avignon, France
during the Papacy of incumbent French Popes, but that wasn't until the 14th century. Still, there may be some insight to be gleaned from their records.
Getting access to such is certainly possible, but it would take quite a bit of negotiating.
I believe no matter what angle one approaches the legend of 'Robin Hood' from, one will always come to dead-ends, courtesy of the deliberate cover-up. I feel it is like doing a second-hand jigsaw and then finding out that a few pieces are missing, it is complete within itself but not entirely complete. |
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Graham P Kirkby |
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Posts: 493 (03/01/08 22:59:48) |
The reason I say the French ecclesiastical records is that someone told me he had identified Robin Hood although I'm beginning to wonder if he had, but he
said to me that if I wanted to do the same I needed to go to France with a bent shepherds crook, whatever that means.
I wondered if he had been exiled to France, but I'm only guessing. At the time I was researching Simon de-Senlis (St. Liz) who died on pilgrimage in France on his way back to England. The Senlis family as you will know became the earls of Huntingdon, they married into the Lacy family (Pontefract) they had possessions in Herefordshire and along with their Norman friends invaded and ruled Ireland around the time of King John.
"Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance."
W. Clement Stone
Last Edited By: Graham P Kirkby
03/02/08 00:24:55.
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1981Marcus |
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Posts: 207 (03/02/08 07:50:48) |
If you're going to argue that there was a cover-up, you're going to need positive evidence of that. Which, since according to your case it was a VERY
successful cover-up, will be hard to find. Especially dealing with a period from which so few records survive anyway.
Of course, an upside of that is that most of what has survived has been published, so you'll have less ferreting around in the archives to do. |
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Graham P Kirkby |
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Posts: 494 (03/03/08 12:34:03) |
There is one cover up I would like to get to the bottom of and that is who killed the Lord of Hathersage Roger-de-Bellers. He was the Baron of the exchequer to
King Edward II, he lived in Basford Nottingham although he had other properties, and he was one of the most hated men in England. Whoever killed him would
become a hero overnight. The Folville gang played a huge role in his death but there is a suspicion someone outside of the gang actually killed him. Henry De
Faucumberg, 'Sheriff of Nottingham' and Yorkshire was involved in bringing the Folville gang to justice and I can't help wondering if the same
sheriff knew Robin Hood?
"Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance."
W. Clement Stone
Last Edited By: Graham P Kirkby
03/03/08 14:42:36.
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