Perhaps I did go a bit far, I will re-phrase; none of the theories stack up to anything more than a house of cards.
Robert F
Robert F
0 Kudo
who was the real robin hood?
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 Robert F |
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Posts: 42 (02/07/08 19:05:35) |
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Sanctus de Alba |
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Posts: 6 (02/09/08 16:31:08) |
There are a few things that we can be sure about regarding the legend. Firstly, the actual character, if he did exist, and I firmly believe he did, had to be
alive before 1377. Secondly, additional characters such as Friar Tuck and Maid Marian are later creations. Thirdly, the ballads, particularly the Gest, have no
historical credence as they were created purely with entertainment in mind, and names and places would have been changed over the years to suit venue and
audience. Lastly, the debate regarding Robin Hood will continue.
Sanctus de Alba (aka, Nybor Edoh)
Last Edited By: Sanctus de Alba
02/09/08 16:33:29.
Edited 1 times.
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1981Marcus |
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Posts: 191 (02/10/08 03:16:56) |
To play devil's advocate for a bit, Tuck is an established part of the legend by 1475; Marian's first appearance has been dated to 1504, though I must
admit I've not seen anything before about 1590. The oldest ballads don't go back much further in their present forms than 1450ish.* It's true that
they both appear confined to the dramatic tradition, with little presence in the ballads: but one might as well turn this on its head and point out that Much
and Scarlet are confined to the ballads and don't appear in any pre-1590 plays. After all, although only a handful survive, we know that Robin Hood plays
were very popular in the late Middle Ages: they aren't reliable historical sources, but, as you point out, neither are the ballads.
Not that I would reject the early ballads outright. There's a difference between treating a source as unreliable and treating it as fiction. Better sources, where they exist, should be given more weight than the ballads, and nothing taken on the ballads' authority: but anything which *does* match with the Gest or other early ballad sources is still going to be a point worth considering. (I'm puzzled as to why you say "particularly the Gest". Are you really suggesting that the likes of "Robin Hood and the Potter" is a *better* source than the Gest?) * I believe the majority of the text of the Gest was in existence by 1430, but probably as several shorter ballads which were woven together some decades later. |
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nybor edoh |
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Posts: 28 (02/10/08 16:57:06) |
I said, particularly the Gest, purely because it is a mishmash. Parts of Doesborch and Worde's publications cobbled together would seem to be anything but
'authorative'.
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1981Marcus |
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Posts: 192 (02/11/08 06:28:25) |
NB Re the Wakefield Robin Hood: The main point in favour of this identification was the existence of King Edward's porter of the same name. Therefore, it
was knocked on the head when Robin the porter turned out to have been in the King's service BEFORE Edward went to Nottingham. Furthermore, Robert Hood was
still living as a law-abiding citizen in Wakefield many years AFTER the King's jaunt to Nottingham; and the identification of his fellow Wakefield man
Henry de Faucumberg with the Sheriff of Nottingham of the same name won't stand up either, as the Wakefield de Faucumberg keeps popping up in the records
after the Sheriff's death.
We're left with the name Robert Hood, the likelihood that he fought on the rebel side at Boroughbridge, and the fact that the King's progress does undeniably resemble that described in the Gest. But it's just not enough. |
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Robhen |
Monkbretton Cartulary | ||
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Posts: 54 (02/12/08 10:27:34) |
The Monkbretton Cartulary is Mss 50755, f 185 in the British Library. But the relevant part of it seems to be the sentance which includes the mention of Robert
Hodes stone. " ........ half an acre lies in the same field between the land of John Adamson on the west and the land of the prioress on the east.........
half an acre lies in the same culture between the land of William Lord on the west and the land of Reginald Pullayne on the east and abuts on the aforesaid
Lynges and upon the stone of Robert Hode towards the north, an acre lies in the same field between the land of the said prioress, etc.
Dated at Wrangbrook, Sunday in the feast of the Holy Trinity 1322. The battle of Boroughbridge was 1322. Over the last 3 decades I have regularly checked with the British Library to ask whether the date on the Cartulary is 1322. Jim asked the same question 40 years ago. The answer has always been the same; 1322. Robert H |
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Graham P Kirkby |
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Posts: 471 (02/12/08 10:36:59) |
I wonder how old Robin Hood was at the Battle of Burrowbridge. He could have made his name long before Burrowbridge?
If this stone was in Yorkshire, and Monk Bretton is near Barnsley (Barnsdale) then that places Robin Hood fairly and squarely in Yorkshire.
"Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance."
W. Clement Stone
Last Edited By: Graham P Kirkby
02/12/08 13:14:33.
Edited 2 times.
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Robhen |
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Posts: 55 (02/13/08 00:22:01) |
Who says that Robert Hode's stone was anything to do with the outlaw? It is termed just that, 'upon the stone of Robert Hode.' Was Reg Pullayne a member of his gang? (Little Elton John). And was not Elton Hayes, Alan A' Dale. The prioress is obviously Maid Marian, and William Lord just has to be Will Scarlett. It all come together now. It places A Robin Hood fairly and squarely in Yorkshire, but since Robert was the fourth most popular boy's name during the 14th
century and Hode was as common then as Smith is today, then it's hardly surprising that we find a Robert Hode in Yorkshire.
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robyn hode |
who was the real robin hood? | ||
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Posts: 36 (02/14/08 11:37:08) |
most of these historians are looking for someone by the name of robin hood (or robert). what if this was a nickname as of little john, will scarlett, much etc.
is there any theories out there by a different name that i may have missed? thanks.
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Graham P Kirkby |
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Posts: 474 (02/14/08 11:47:49) |
I'm inclined to agree with you that it was a nickname and that is one reason I go for Robert of Loxley who Roger Dodsworth identified as Robin Hood
roundabout 1600.
"Truth will always be truth, regardless of lack of understanding, disbelief or ignorance."
W. Clement Stone |
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